Maybe I'm missing something, but as someone who has moved from UA to AA, I see a couple of significant problems.
First, it seems that I cannot do an international upgrade unless I mail/fax in a request more than 21 days in advance, or I pay a $75 fee? That really sucks! UA does it on the phone in less than 5 minutes. Is there another way? I'd like to upgrade on a flight on Jan 19th, but I'm traveling up til then so I won't be home to deal with certs. So it seems I have to pay $75!?!?
The second problem is that I learned last year that earning domestic upgrades with miles resets sometime in February?!! And like last year, it looks like I'll be just short. So they are basically stealing 8000-9000 miles of my effort to earn upgrades.
Is AA looking to improve to match UA's great program?
Originally posted by stimpy:
I could try to have them send the cert if I knew for sure what day it would arrive. But I'll be bouncing around France in Jan and I don't know when the cert would actually arrive or what hotel I would be in.
The whole method of upgrading is just annoying.
Let's clear up the confusion over $50 vs $75 fees and what they are supposed to do:
For $50, you are supposed to get overnight delivery of an award certificate, which you then must turn in upon ticketing (for a freebie) or upon travel (for an upgrade).
For $75, you are getting an instant ticket. Used to be paper, now almost always e-.
At the $75 level, there should be no mailing involved at all. So I am having trouble understanding all the hand-wringing over foreign mails.
Stimpy --
Are you travelling to a place where you have an address for that period of time? In other words, give AA your "travelling" address if you are going to be, say, in an office location for that period of time.
If you order today, you can also ask them to FedEx the cert. I dont know the cost (I think its $10).
--Jim
Originally posted by ron-val-ron:
point well taken, shareholder
care to take a crack at defending the
"rewind" that takes place on the 10k tally
(for your next round of 4 upgrade coupons) at the end of feb (or is it march - can't remember) ??!!
easy-- this is inertia-- a holdover from the time when this counter also triggered the now-dead "threshhold" bonuses at 35, 45, 55, 65, 75, and 100,000 miles. That was a per-year award, so re-set every year... the upgrade earning just sort of piggybacked on the plateau counter.
[This message has been edited by martin33 (edited 12-29-2001).]
I'm just a lowly Gold member, but have upgraded my last three transatlantic trips from 'N' class fares. All have been done over the phone, the first one was free, the second one had a $50 charge, but the agent waived it when I pointed out that the day I was doing the upgrade was exactly 21 days prior to departure.
I had to pay $50 for the third one, for travel this coming weekend, but I reluctantly accept that, because the miles only posted last week and I was well within 21 days. These were all e-tickets, so they were just upgraded over the phone.
The point is, if they can be done so easily over the phone, why are we still being charged at all?
I know when I worked on the AAdvantage Platinum desk in London, I used to waive the fee quite a lot, because processing only took me about 5 seconds to issue certs, then I just put the info in the PNR. Of course, that was a few years ago, so I would hope that technology has progressed a little since then, but it would appear not!
AA charge it, because they can. Simple as that.
Originally posted by stimpy:
As I said above, I'll be on the road before the flight so I won't have a paper cert in hand even if I order it today. I'm leaving on Jan 7th and the flight I want to upgrade on is on the 19th.
So I don't think I can do the trick you mentioned Plato90s, unless I'm missing something.
But if others are having success with trying again and again over the phone, I may give it a try.
If you log on to AA.com, you can change your primary mailing address on-line. The change will be confirmed and updated as soon as you log off and start a new session.
So just have the award cert mailed to wherever you'll be on Jan. 18th and you'll be fine.
I could try to have them send the cert if I knew for sure what day it would arrive. But I'll be bouncing around France in Jan and I don't know when the cert would actually arrive or what hotel I would be in.
The whole method of upgrading is just annoying.
As noted, UA upgrades for miles can only be done from a limited set of fares, while AA's can be done for all discounted published fares. Considering both airlines are losing money, and AA has decided to generate revenue from mileage upgrade certificates ordered after the 21-day limit shows good business sense that UA might consider implementing itself. If you are unable to plan that far in advance, then bite the bullet and pay the extra few dollars. It is certainly worth the benefit you are getting. That this is waved for ExecPlats only shows AA cares about their top tier and keeps a few benefits exclusively for them. Why not?
Yes, you can confirm your upgrade seat without a certificate in hand. You can order the certificate by fax, phone or internet. You must have the certificate in hand for the reissuing of the ticket, or adjustment of the e-ticket.
On a trip in September, I had make the booking on the web, called AA to reserve the upgraded seats, then faxed the order for the upgrade to the appropriate AA department, all prior to the 21-day cutoff. When 2-weeks prior to the flight I noticed the mile had still not been taken from my account, and I did not yet have the certificate in hand, I called the Plat desk. The agent made a few calls, came back to say there was no record of my upgrade having been processed or requested. She took my word, and put the certificate right through. This was at 3pm. The next day at 9am FedEx was at the door with the certificate. There was no charge made, and I was actually quite shocked to have it in hand in less than 18 hours: DFW-YYZ!
Originally posted by FullFare:
Plato: Seriously, a respected poster such as yourself would submit to the vagaries of overseas mails getting through to a hotel on tight notice? I wouldn't nor couldn't count on it. The real remedy is to copy UA and get these things done with the flick of a key-stroke, as they are doing now. We can and should end this needless hassle and torture.
Well, it's actually worked well in the past, when I was traveling with short connection times and didn't want to risk check-in. I had all my business material Fedex'ed ahead of time to the hotel where I had a confirmed reservation. Everything went smoothly, and I was able to make some very short connections with no fear.
Anyways, there are no FF program which actually has every feature we want. Free expedite award vs. upgrade any fare. You have to take a trade-off somewhere.
[edit: On top of that, AA has a very precise program for issuing awards. The awards are not sent out until precisely 14 days after you request them, and FedEx will definitely guarantee delivering a package to Europe within 3 business days. So I really don't see the high degree of risk.]
[This message has been edited by Plato90s (edited 12-24-2001).]
UA lets you upgrade on any fare. At least I've never had a problem doing it.
T/BE20/G, good idea. Does it work? What if I have a west coast to Europe award handy, yet I need to go to South America or Asia?
I admit I resented paying the expedite fees when I was PLT.
However, even then I understood why the fee was not being charged to EXP - having recently made EXP, I feel my company (and myself) have paid AA enough $ already - to be charging EXP for this would be tacky. I assume this is AA'S VIEW?
All I can say is if not EXP - u need to plan ahead.
I believe you can upgrade now over the phone without having a certificate in hand. You will beat the 21 day requirement[ as long as the upgrade space is available]
Stimpy and FullFare, I do understand your point, because I'm also used to fly *A, where Programs happily issue the awards, no costs involved, even when they're for use in other *A carriers.
The point here is the fee and the time in advance required by the carrier.
For Latin America AA requires NOT 21 days in advance but up to 6 weeks, in order to process an e-transaction... (no comments)
I do understand that they charge fees because they can... so the point is that the program might be interesting for ExPlatinums, as lower levels get heavily charged.
As a side note, according to the latest news, AA is also copying UA's restrictions as upgrades are possible in "most Y and C fares", which may mean excluding the deepest discount fares using miles, as UA's policy...
[This message has been edited by pb9997 (edited 12-29-2001).]
Originally posted by stimpy:
I could try to have them send the cert if I knew for sure what day it would arrive. But I'll be bouncing around France in Jan and I don't know when the cert would actually arrive or what hotel I would be in.
The whole method of upgrading is just annoying.
Send it to the last place you'll stay before leaving. Hotels will take the mail of customers, even if they haven't checked-in yet, if you tell them ahead of time.
Originally posted by stimpy:
mmgm, I just tried to upgrade over the phone and they said I could not. The only way to do it over the phone is to pay $75 and call Advantage customer service (which probably isn't even open now).
Just order your award certs at AA.com and call up AAdvantage to upgrade. Tell them you already have paper certs and they'll process the upgrade for you.
Plato: Seriously, a respected poster such as yourself would submit to the vagaries of overseas mails getting through to a hotel on tight notice? I wouldn't nor couldn't count on it. The real remedy is to copy UA and get these things done with the flick of a key-stroke, as they are doing now. We can and should end this needless hassle and torture.
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AAExecPlat; Lifetime AAirpass; 3MillMiles; UApremier-PassPlus
As I said above, I'll be on the road before the flight so I won't have a paper cert in hand even if I order it today. I'm leaving on Jan 7th and the flight I want to upgrade on is on the 19th.
So I don't think I can do the trick you mentioned Plato90s, unless I'm missing something.
But if others are having success with trying again and again over the phone, I may give it a try.
I once told by someone at AA that they can process (mileage) upgrade awards without physical certs on e-tickets only (and I have done this). The 21-day rule still applies, however. It's worth noting that the 21-day rule isn't enforced with uniform vigor.
Can't you also avoid the fee by keeping upgrade certificates on hand, rather than requesting them only when you have flights in mind to upgrade?
There was no fee on TW for mid-tier Elites and above for expedited awards or for re-despositing miles. I found the second benefit to be quite useful on several occasions, especially when changing from a free ticket to an upgrade award when fares came down.
I was lined up to make EXP with a couple of Oneworld RTW's planned, but the Q4 economy killed those trips and I ended up with 59K miles on AA and 110K miles on UA.
<gulp>
Yep, you can do that to http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Originally posted by FullFare:
Let me simplify: UA can process any award, any time, for any PAX, 1K on down--with no fee. Lessens any warmness or fuzziness for AA. I guess the "AAdvantage" means they are taking "advantage" of us. No amount of debate will ever convince me that AA has a need to do this.
And yes, those fees add up over time, especially since most of our travel is last minute. Can think of only maybe one or two cases when an AA fee wasn't charged in the 700,000 miles we redeemed. Jumped ship to UA, we've redeemed over 1mil miles, and not one fee, and those upgrade certs costs only a toll-free phone call to process.
Plato: appreciate your response. As for FedEx, I've always preached that there are only two things I believe in: FederalExpress and the the Democratic Party.
Well, FedEx let me down this weekend (XMAS) and there are tears in my family with undelivered gifts. As for the Democratic Party, who knows?
As for the original topic under discussion, you have my respect for your achievement in getting certs sent to you. I just wish one could do this with a call to the 800 number (yes, we're all EXP's, but my kids and friends aren't and it is annoying to pay for this when it is so needless).
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AAExecPlat; Lifetime AAirpass; 3MillMiles; UApremier-PassPlus
Originally posted by stimpy:
UA lets you upgrade on any fare. At least I've never had a problem doing it.
T/BE20/G, good idea. Does it work? What if I have a west coast to Europe award handy, yet I need to go to South America or Asia?
On domestic flights, yes.
But on international flights, certain discount economy fares are specifically excluded from upgrades with miles. You have to have at least H-class fare, which is about middle-of-the-pack in economy fare classes. Anything lower, including all e-fares, can only be upgraded with SWU's. This is in stark contrast with AA's policy, which allows you to upgrade all e-fares with miles.
I have repeatedly upgraded by phone without the certificate. There has never been a charge[ always more than 3 weeks out. In fact, I do it when I make the reservation]
Is it true that UA's program is almost mirror like with the AA's? My old man is thinking of flying UA to china..and I told him that their int'l upgrade policy is kinda like AA's and much much better than NW's,which he flies till this year...
point well taken, shareholder
care to take a crack at defending the
"rewind" that takes place on the 10k tally
(for your next round of 4 upgrade coupons) at the end of feb (or is it march - can't remember) ??!!
The UA and AA programs have been compared a lot here and one of the major sticking points is the fee that AA charges for expedited awards.
One of the reasons AA charges the fee, is basically because they can. AA is one of the few (if only) airlines that lets you upgrade any published fare, domestic or international.
The only way to avoid the fee is knowing your schedule 21 days out, or becoming Executive Platinum.
Flip
One of my main motivations in making EXPlatinum this year was the waiver of expedited award fee and VIPOWs
mmgm, I just tried to upgrade over the phone and they said I could not. The only way to do it over the phone is to pay $75 and call Advantage customer service (which probably isn't even open now).
Let me simplify: UA can process any award, any time, for any PAX, 1K on down--with no fee. If AA can do it for EXP, why can't they do it for everybody? Why are they such money grubs? Most posters here say they are doing it for the money. So business is business. Lessens any warmness or fuzziness for AA. I guess the "AAdvantage" means they are taking "advantage" of us.
No amount of debate will ever convince me that AA has a need to do this.
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AAExecPlat; Lifetime AAirpass; 3MillMiles; UApremier-PassPlus
Originally posted by Shareholder:
Edited because I misunderstood your comment.
[This message has been edited by moondog (edited 12-29-2001).]
Socalterp: Interesting comment you made about re-depositing. Even though AA waives fees to EXP's for instant redemption, to my knowledge, they haven't waived any re-stocking charges (the $40 one, I believe) for EXP's. Just another inconsistency in the program, IMO.
Shareholder has pointed out that AA does what it does for its own business interest--and that UA may want to reconsider its position and charge what it can for award redemption. My brief remembrances of college economics were that oligopolies (I believe the airline industry is one) generally see competitors matching price decreases (as airlines generally do) and ignore price increases.
That is not to say that FF programs will always follow that model. But one can see, overall, nearly identical award structures between UA's and AA's programs. The board has, on many occasions, discussed the specific differences.
Charging fees for redemption of awards may not be a make/break item for many. My response to Shareholder is to walk with my feet. My AA miles (once over a million) have bottomed down to 500K. I am pushing up over 300K now on UA and fully expect to my UA pile to overtake AA's this year. I can't upgrade on many coach fares, but it's 20K RT on most fares domestic, and 40K RT to Europe, and nothing to restock miles.
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AAExecPlat; Lifetime AAirpass; 3MillMiles; UApremier-PassPlus
You know what, I didn't even look at the date you were going. I don't understand why you can't call and order the cert now with no fee. Another handy rule, if you don't like the answer, hang up and call back http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Flip
crakusi: You're a gentleman and a scholar (and there're very few of us left)! All kidding aside, I fly pretty much only AA and UA in a 75/25 ratio. Don't know much about redemption fees on the other majors (if any) and wonder if anybody who redeems on, say, DL, NW, CO, etc., could comment.
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AAExecPlat; Lifetime AAirpass; 3MillMiles; UApremier-PassPlus
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