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File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTMLThe regulations are clear that an employer may not use tests VISA or MasterCard RUSH your order by FAX (7031 525-5081 or
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After finally paying a bit more attention to my foreign currency expenses, I realized that the exchange rate on my Citibank VISA is now much less favorable that the one on my Starwood Amex.
After calling the respective companies, plus a third one, I found the following:
Citibank charges a total of 3% over interbank rates Amex charges a total of 2% over interbank rates MBNA (on my AOPA Platinum Select card) charges a total of 1% over interbank rates
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File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTMLtrue of Citibank Visa, for instance. They ask use your MasterCard' Card. Find everything. WordExpre'ss makes it easv t. rae. great Iooki a
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File Format: Microsoft Word - View as HTMLj) Subordinating the purchase or sale to the condition of not using, purchasing, In October 1998, the Antitrust Division charged Visa and MasterCard,
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All three cards have car rental insurance.
You guessed it: MBNA will now get 100% of my overseas bussiness (about $20k/year, for a savings of $400). I am puzzled, however, on Citibank's decision to price itself out of the market on a card that is squarely targeted to very frequent travelers.
the 3% is irritating but generaly less than changing money, i continue to use cc's whereever possible.
There is a discussion under the AMEX group about AMEX. I have found that a Visa I have and AMEX both claim they charge 2%. When I make transactions on the same date and posted on the same date, AMEX comes out higher in USD.
It is very strange. Can anyone here explain that?
Steven
Hi Hillrider
The MBNA card you have is called Platinum Select? I have many CIti cards and with the coming up foreign trip coming up...i think i'll get one of those nice MBNA cards...on the website they got this Quantum Card..wondering if you know any info about this....
thanks
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Al
Tend to agree with NOLOGIC,and I have found DINERS CLUB more widely accepted outside the US...
Originally posted by
I have found that a Visa I have and AMEX both claim they charge 2%. When I make transactions on the same date and posted on the same date, AMEX comes out higher in USD.
It is very strange. Can anyone here explain that?
I can concur with that. I have tried out Amex vs. Visa and it comes out higher vs. same day transactions at supposedly same fee when converted to AUD for cards in Australia too.
As for explaining it, all the banks can set their own foreign exchange rates. Clearly, Amex sets particularly unfavourable ones.
I'm not surprised that Citibank has a massive fee. For one thing, I have generally found them to be leaders in shady practices. For another thing, I'll bet most cardholders are too stupid to realise that they are being had.
Originally posted by Day4Nite:
All of the above is very interesting since the CC companies have long promoted the "fact" that you will get the "best exchange rate" when you simply use their cards to charge your purchases. The fact that they have an up-charge and then hide it in the posted total is simply deceptive.
So, ignoring the mileage issue, what's the best solution? AMEX?, travelers checks?, cash from an overseas ATM? Local money changers? (I don't have an MBNA card and am leaving for Italy/France shortly)
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You'll find that MBNA and Capital One are two companies that charge only a 1% fee, whereas a lot of other companies routinely charge 3% on transactions abroad. A great solution is to use an ATM card, which would give access to your funds in your bank account while giving you a great wholesale exchange rate. You will also incur no ATM fees in europe, as well, which is another good thing (however, your bank may charge you a fee, so you might want to look into either finding out if your bank waives these charges or open an account with a bank that does. troublesome, i know, but useful if you travel overseas a lot). i found access to many ATMs when i was in paris last year and found it very convenient. i guess you're short on time, so good luck. sorry, i'm not too familiar with traveler's checks.
I believe Citibank started this a few years ago. I forgot all about it but didn't care at the time since I didn't have a Citibank card. But now I do and have to remember not to bring it along to Europe (except maybe as a backup.)
Diners Club is not a bad way to go: 2% plus you get the most flexible rewards program out there! I would pay 1% for the miles vs. MBNA.
I think Diners Club miles are more valuable than any given airline, because you can use them to top off or round up miles needed for an award on any airline/hotel.
The most irritating aspect of this practice to me is that it is impossible to quantify the magnitude of the charges and to comparison shop between cards. I don't recall ever "writing my Congressman," but this is an area crying out for regulation. Banks are clearly misleading consumers and taking advantage of the lack of transparency to rip them off.
Originally posted by Aspirapolvere:
[B]Chase CO card will actually show you the fees. While it is nice that they are upfront about it, it is nonetheless disturbing!
B]
Actually Chase charges as much as Citibank I believe.
MBNA is a good way to go with at 1%.
First USA United reverted back to 1% after a big PR scandal some years back. It's the ONLY First USA card to have this rate--all others are 3%. I'm just waiting for Last USA to go back to 3% soon--it's the "nature of the beast" for that crappy bank.
Nextcard Amazon Visa goes at 2% (my choice since I get a 2% return in Amazon rewards--MBNA has no real travel cards that gives this 2% amount, like their Barnes&Noble card at 1% reward return, so I don't use them overseas--First USA United isn't worth it at 1% beacause customer service is soo bad....could you imagine disputing a Euro charge with them??! DOH!).
AMEX at 2% always is HIGHER than a 2% VISA/MC. I don't know why, but it's a padding scam to get it close to 3%. Usually it's been noted to float around 2.5+%! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
While credit cards are nice to use in Europe for the points, many HUGE shops don't take CC. It's strictly cash over in many places. The sad fact is that Europe is still behind the convenience of credit when compared to the USA. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif Oh well, at least I save 2%-3% FX conversion fee! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
We just returned from Nassau, where we were slapped with this 3% charge on all our Citibank transactions. When I called to ask about it, I was told that Citibank did this routinely. A couple of weeks later, we got a letter signed by "S.Larson" (as are all the letters we get from Citibank Customer Service) justifying their 3% charge.
We went to Caymans last year, and used our card liberally with no surcharge. Well, Citibank can put their 3% where the sun don't shine in the future. Thanks for the heads-up on the MBNA card. That's the one we'll use in the future for all foreign travel.
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--Cat
[This message has been edited by Cat (edited 06-13-2001).]
Originally posted by SST:
I have both First USA's United and British Airways cards; I *believe* the BA card *DOES* rip you off for the 3% fee, per a conversation my wife had with them a few months ago. I *believe* the UA card only rips you for 1%, currently the lowest of all cards. I read this in Travel & Leisure some months back.
As I leave for London on Wednesday, does anyone have any solid information on this? I find that calling customer service at First USA is like talking to children; they don't know what you're talking about, and they mix up the programs they have, giving you "facts" which are true for other cards they carry, but not necessarily yours.
You can find complete details in your cardmember agreement that they mail to you with the card or every so often whenever they change their terms. it would be listed somewhere amidst all the fine print.
Yeah, Citibank's rip-off is even more evident in Argentina, where the Argentinan peso is practically equal to 1 US dollar (1.00012 USDs to be exact), to the point that not only the greenback circulates freely, but even many ATMs give you a choice on whether to spit out pesos or US dollars.
Citibank charged me USD 1.03 for each ARP -- for doing absolutely no work and taking absolutely no risk.
This increase was contained in one of those 5-point type "Notice of Changes in Terms to Your Citibank Card Agreement" inserts effective with the November 1998 billing statement.
Originally posted by KIR@GCM:
[...] It would be interesting to note if the 3% charge is levied on Citibank accounts outside the USA...
I wonder, as well, whether the Canadian AmEx card levies a fee/penalty (& if so, how much) for charges made in the U.S.
Be careful using the UA firstcard, I cancelled mine years ago when they started tacking on the fees.
We are all best off using bankcards, as most of them do not charge anything more than the 1% Visa/MC/etc tack on. Check with your bank, though.
Chase CO card will actually show you the fees. While it is nice that they are upfront about it, it is nonetheless disturbing!
I believe that the CO Chase bankcard does not tack on any extra fees.
I still often use my American credit cards abroad when buying plane tickets, but cash is the way to go otherwise.
I have both First USA's United and British Airways cards; I *believe* the BA card *DOES* rip you off for the 3% fee, per a conversation my wife had with them a few months ago. I *believe* the UA card only rips you for 1%, currently the lowest of all cards. I read this in Travel & Leisure some months back.
As I leave for London on Wednesday, does anyone have any solid information on this? I find that calling customer service at First USA is like talking to children; they don't know what you're talking about, and they mix up the programs they have, giving you "facts" which are true for other cards they carry, but not necessarily yours.
IMHO Citibank doesn't care about losing our business, if 99.9% of the world doesn't read FT and pays the surcharge.
Update: I asked Citibank to exercise its option to waive their 2% fee (which made me pay $1.02 for each $1 spent), and got a letter a few days ago. It said -- no way. Wonder if they notice my charges dropping by $24,000 a year, and MBNA's rising by the same amount (from practically zero)? I am in Europe right now, and I have to admit that it feels really awesome everytime I pay for everything and get out the MBNA card -- I think I have a Pavlovian response to saving 2% every time I do so. Too bad I had to waste over $500 to Citibank before figuring this out. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
VISA/MasterCard charge 1% for conversion. Anything above that is per profit charged by the issuing bank.
Originally posted by Aspirapolvere:
I believe that the CO Chase bankcard does not tack on any extra fees.
Chase bankcard DOES charge the extra fee! My friend used her CO Chase bankcard at ATMs in Ireland, while I used my savings bank card. The interest rates were different for the same day/time, same machine.
Yes, you're paying the surcharges even in Canada.
Does anyone know if Citibank Mastercard adds the surcharge to charges in Canada? I'm going there soon and would like to know. Thanks!
Most people are deceived by this practice because instead of listing the surcharge as a separate line item on your bill, they just pad the real figure by an extra 3% and display it as a single amount. People who don't keep track of the exchange rates never realize that they've been had.
Visa, MasterCard face lawsuits on international currency conversion fees.
http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2001/07/18/living/q_bankrate/
All of the above is very interesting since the CC companies have long promoted the "fact" that you will get the "best exchange rate" when you simply use their cards to charge your purchases. The fact that they have an up-charge and then hide it in the posted total is simply deceptive.
So, ignoring the mileage issue, what's the best solution? AMEX?, travelers checks?, cash from an overseas ATM? Local money changers? (I don't have an MBNA card and am leaving for Italy/France shortly)
Cat,
When you charge in the Cayman Islands, they convert using the fixed exchange rate (US$1 = CI$.80) and charge you in USD. No one here has ever had a surcharge from Cayman Island charges, I hope?
To heck with the mileage! CITI just sent me the 4-point type "Important Change in Terms" on my business AA Mastercard, and upped the ripoff rate. No dice, guys. ALL my charges in Canada (which are significant) and all my vacation charges go to the UA First Card Visa, which allegedly hasn't done this. 3% is just a solid, undeniable ripoff. Shame on Citi, but shame on us if we keep using them out of the country. I'm voting my money.
I believe the First USA British Airways Visa also does not tack on an extra percentage (or two, or three).
Perhaps this is how Citibank's business plan can justify "giving" out Aadvantage miles for every dollar spent? Obviously, there is no application here for USD transactions but it may be so that US issued Citibank cards generate a large enough revenue base for foreign currency conversions.
It would be interesting to note if the 3% charge is levied on Citibank accounts outside the USA...
Originally posted by KIR@GCM:
Perhaps this is how Citibank's business plan can justify "giving" out Aadvantage miles for every dollar spent? Obviously, there is no application here for USD transactions but it may be so that US issued Citibank cards generate a large enough revenue base for foreign currency conversions.
It would be interesting to note if the 3% charge is levied on Citibank accounts outside the USA...
If you use a savings bank or credit union card, there is no extra fee. Unfortunately, since there are no affiliation cards that I know of with savings banks, you also don't get the ff milage.
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WARNING: Save 1-2% abroad by NOT using your Citibank AAdvantage Visa/MC